I’ve always found it sad that Phoenix is the fifth largest city in America and lacks the diversity, culture and talent pool of other major metropolitan areas such as NY, LA, Chicago and the SF Bay Area. In addition, the tech startup culture in the greater Phoenix area suffers from a lack of VC funding, which I think hinders growth and tends to keep talent away.

To make matters worse, Phoenix and it’s surrounding cities now have one of the worst real estate markets in the country. It’s enough to make one want to get the hell out! But wait, they can’t sell their homes so they’re stuck.

You wrote, “The point is we might not have the urban density that many people clamor for, but the truth is the majority of the population here might not want it.”

I think you hit the nail on the head with this point. I think a lot of people like the small town feel that the entire area has and they may not want an urban city in Phoenix, Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa or elsewhere for that matter. I’m not sure that Phoenix or the other surrounding cities can ever achieve an urban downtown that’s bustling day and night like the other metro cities I mentioned above.

Downtown Phoenix is pretty sleepy, but then again, so is Downtown San Jose, which is in the heart of Silicon Valley. But what Silicon Valley has over the greater Phoenix area is a bustling tech scene and a large talent pool. And the Bay Area has lots of major universities, including the top public university in the nation (UC Berkeley).

I certainly would like to see Phoenix grow it’s talent pool and improve it’s economic outlook, but when AZ voters rejected the technology transfer proposition (prop 102) back in 2004 it made me think that maybe the people of AZ don’t want that kind of change and growth. I personally think its rejection hurt the state in the long run.

I was going by clusters of Top 150 cities (not including suburbs), but it’s good to MSA data is there.

“All major metros have this same branding issue. It is almost always resovled by using “Greater” Phoenix for instance.”

Most, not all have this issue.

“The world will never know Gilbert or Chandler the way they know Phoenix. Just go with it.”

Most people know Tempe, Glendale and Scottsdale already.

“I live in downtown Phoenix and it is improving every day and will one day be a “real” downtown.”

It is certainly improving all the time, I would argue that it is already real.

I think the community that steps up on the technology side will get support fairly quickly. It’s a big commitment for who ever does it.

“Logically, it’s the East Valley. There is, after all, ASU, ATStill University in Mesa, Williams Gateway Campus, WIU, etc. That’s better than any other part of the Valley.”

I would throw an opinion in here, but I think most people know where I sit on this one.

“And education is all going online, so don’t place so much emphasis on university campi. That’s so last century. We have plenty of education.”

Research and development is not done well as an online distributed function. Why it’s good for some education I think it is no substitute for a physical technical university. WIU or UofPhx for example could not fill the current void.

“It’s a branding issue. Phoenix is kind of a default brand. But we can aggregate stuff anywhere enough people are willing to collaborate around a brand promise, not just a tag line. A real one. One we can deliver on.”

There is probably something significant in this statement. I am no marketer. I fail at PR.

“Why do you continue to hold these conversations after my bed time?”

The truth is we need just let them run a little bit longer. Then you could bring Buppy out for his walk and join us first thing in the morning.

Two distinct issues. I have never said that Phoenix wasn’t the largest downtown. Just because “Phoenix” is the moniker that people use to talk about the Metro Phoenix area doesn’t mean that just saying “downtown” means downtown phoenix especially if the conversation is happening in another city that has what they call a “downtown”.

I am actually suggesting in the post that perhaps the cities should get their own identities. If that were to happen maybe the marketing machine would stop using “Phoenix” as the generic regional term and instead come up with something better? Maybe it’s a horrible idea altogether.

“I guess it must have really bothered you that someone didn’t take you seriously, so you created an ad-hoc committee of people who don’t actually live in Central Phoenix to talk about its Downtown and use the web to justify your bias”

This is a pretty big stretch. Seeing how no one called anyone together for anything. We were simply hanging out at hacknight. Everyone had a beer or two and was playing rockband. Conversation came up from someone other than me about an event (WordCamp) and we started talking about the state of things.

The truth is we barely talked about downtown Phoenix, but when we did there were way more accolades given to than there were negatives. I was merely one person in a conversation of many. I do have biases but I generally make them quite clear unlike most people in such discussions.

Well, now that’s watered down and there’s no city with a distinctive environment. Ed and I tried to do it with Tempe several years ago by making it the Tech Oasis, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. So maybe it’s Chandler’s moment. Or Gilbert’s. Or Mesa’s.

Logically, it’s the East Valley. There is, after all, ASU, ATStill University in Mesa, Williams Gateway Campus, WIU, etc. That’s better than any other part of the Valley.

And education is all going online, so don’t place so much emphasis on university campi. That’s so last century. We have plenty of education.

It’s a branding issue. Phoenix is kind of a default brand. But we can aggregate stuff anywhere enough people are willing to collaborate around a brand promise, not just a tag line. A real one. One we can deliver on.

Why do you continue to hold these conversations after my bed time?

I guess it must have really bothered you that someone didn’t take you seriously, so you created an ad-hoc committee of people who don’t actually live in Central Phoenix to talk about its Downtown and use the web to justify your bias: http://derekneighbors.com/2008/12/gangplank-in-downtown-phoenix/ – that’s rich!

Back to the Twitter thread: My opinion is that one can’t be serious to actually think those of us who set our location to “Phoenix” need to clarify “which downtown”: http://twitter.com/mattwynn/status/4634061199

I love Gangplank: it keeps the self-proclaimed haters far away from our Downtown.

There is a lot more in the Valley than most people realize, but there is a lot more that needs to happen on an infrastructure and governmental level to help it mature. As long as the local municipalities squabble rather than collaborating I’m not sure how many of the larger items you mentioned can materialize.

That being said, you make some great points. I hope that more people can continue to have these conversations around the Valley. I know lots of us are doing downtown — downtown Phoenix!

We DEFINITELY need more schools here, but will the legislature choose to fund them?